Return on Meaning: Rethinking Wealth Beyond Financial Capital

Welcome to Legacy Builders, strategies for building successful family enterprises. Brought to you by Beacon Family Office at CI Assante Wealth Management Limited. I’m your host, Cory Gagnon, Senior Wealth Advisor. And on this show, we explore global ideas, concepts, and models that help family enterprises better navigate the complexities of family wealth.

Today, we welcome Grant Conroy, Portfolio Manager with Genus Capital Management, where he works with families as they think through wealth, purpose, and legacy. With nearly three decades in global financial markets, Grant brings both technical experience and a human perspective to his work. He helps families look beyond the numbers and think about how their wealth can support their purpose, their relationships, and the legacy they hope to create.

My goal is to be the most curious person in today’s conversation with Grant, as we explore what it means to think about wealth beyond the numbers. We’ll talk about work ethic, motivation, and the moments that make us reconsider what money is really meant to do. Along the way, we’ll look at family, experience, intuition, and the forms of capital that shape how people live, connect, and define a meaningful legacy.

Now, let’s dive in!

Cory: Welcome, Grant. We’re excited to have you here today to share your wealth of knowledge and experiences with us. Let’s dive in, shall we?

Grant: Thank you for having me.

Cory: Grant, imagine you’re delivering a commencement speech to the graduating class of 2026, and you have the chance to inspire them with your story. How would you begin your speech to convey the incredible lessons and expertise that you’ve gained along your career?

Grant: I think I’ve never actually been asked to perform a commencement speech. There could be a reason for that. But the lessons I’ve learned, and there’ve been many of them, I think one that stands out for me, certainly from when I graduated to where I am today, is that money doesn’t buy you happiness.

For the first thirty-four years of my life, I pretty much operated under the false assumption that money can buy you happiness. And I was brought up with a work ethic. I had a paper round from the age of eight, and pretty much worked ever since. But there was one time, when I was around 34, I was working in the city in London, so the financial districts, and it was a fairly capitalist kind of environment that I was in. And one year when I got a bonus, I spent a good chunk of it on a fancy sports car, and thought that was amazing, and that was going to make me happy.

And so I distinctly remember one Friday evening driving home from work. It was kind of late. I was tired, and I was sitting at a red light, and a group of people crossed in front of me, having fun, clearly on a night out. And I was sitting there thinking, what am I doing? I’ve spent a ton of money on this car. I’m sad in it, and it’s not actually making me happy. And look at those guys just walking across the road, going to the next bar or wherever they were heading, having fun. And it was a sort of realization moment, or a realization for myself, that what I thought was going to actually help make me happy isn’t necessarily what is actually going to make me happy, if that makes sense.

So I think, definitely work hard, and definitely treat yourself well. But I think when you do buy things, nice things, you’ve got to understand what they do give you, and what they don’t give you. So one of the things that I sort of pivoted on is that money will buy me happiness, and I don’t think that is the case.

Another lesson that has served me well, and I think I wish I’d known this earlier, is to be curious and to challenge things, and just notice the world and your life as you live it. So when I graduated, I pretty much got, I’ve done some summer internships. So when I graduated, I sort of went into a job, and then ended up in that role for seventeen years. It was great and I learned a lot, but it was very functional. And so I kind of shut down part of me in terms of the learning around and being curious, and witnessing around the world and everything that was going on in life. It was a trading job in market, so it was very market-focused. And so my learning and attention was all focused externally and on the markets. And I think what I failed to do is grow that much within myself through that period of time. I didn’t do a lot of introspection, and I certainly just didn’t notice synchronicities going on in the world. Everything was focused on the screen and what was happening externally. And I didn’t really listen to my gut or intuition or instincts, and sometimes you get this misalignment inside, but it’s being able to notice it and realize it.

So I think staying curious and staying open, and just noticing the world and what life is showing you, is a is a very good lesson, or very good takeaway, and something that I only realized later in life when I had a moment to pause, and I kind of shifted gears when I moved to Vancouver, and it started a whole new realm of growth for me. And I think as part of that, I realized you can only live life forwards.

There’s a Danish philosopher, I think, basically, the saying goes, you can only live life forwards, but make sense of it looking backwards, something along those lines. And I’ve had an incredibly lucky life. If I was at my graduation and I would fast forward to where I am today and say, until your mid thirties, late thirties, you’re going to be in London working in a fast-paced environment, earning some, earning well and enjoying life, and then you’re going to move to Vancouver in Canada, and you’re going to settle down and have a family, I think I would have taken that. That would have been a great combination, but none of that was really planned. It sort of just happened and fell into place a little bit. And I feel incredibly lucky for the way that life unfolded. But I think we try and plan things, and it’s good to have a direction to go in. But every time you sort of have a plan, it’s not necessarily going to work out.

And so I think when I was 20, I had a plan. Or when I was 21 or whenever graduating, I had a plan. And it didn’t work out anything like I thought it would. And yet it’s worked out great, and so I feel incredibly lucky. So I think, maybe Eisenhower or somebody basically said that plans are useless, but the act of planning is everything. And so I really advocate for that. It might not feel like the right path at the time, but one day you will look back and it will make sense. And so I guess that ties into being curious and being open, but just living life forwards, is the only way you can do it.

Cory: Amazing! Grant, going back to what you learned about work ethic, having a paper wrote to what work ethic means to you today. How do you see the similarities and differences?

Grant: I was always driven to money for myself, and that’s what sort of led to the paper round. And it was always encouraged in my family and in my upbringing to be productive and to do something. And I don’t know if it’s good or bad because it stays with me now, and I find it hard to sometimes just sit down and turn off and relax a little bit. If there’s something that needs doing, I tend to want to get it done. But I think it definitely put me in good stead, because by the time that I was finishing university and I was going into work, I couldn’t wait to start working. I was really excited to be doing that, and to be able to be sort of, not certainly more productive than when you’re studying, but it had a tangible something to it. You got paid and you were doing something, whereas when you’re studying, it’s harder to put an immediate sort of result on that, other than the knowledge. It stayed with me, and it shaped me.

But as I’ve grown older and started to delve within myself and learn about myself more, I do wonder about the negative consequences of having that work ethic. And sometimes it is that I just can’t switch off and relax. So in the evenings, I probably should just spend an hour doing nothing, but unfortunately, there’s always a to-do list, and so I end up doing that.

Cory: And when you think about that gratification of making money as a result of that effort versus the scholastic endeavors where it’s quite delayed, of here’s a piece of paper for your accomplishment many years later. How do you tie that into some of the work you do today and the families that you work with, including the work that you do with your own family?

Grant: So it comes back to viewing, and I think Jay Hughes encapsulates this well when he talks about wealth is more than just financial capital. He lists four other qualitative capitals along with it, but I’ll come back to those, in a moment. But I started in life very much thinking that financial capital was the goal, and that was wealth. And I think that process helped me because it drove me and inspired me to work hard and to put in long hours and learn and grow to some extent and do those things. But then I think it also helped me, when I sat at the red light and I realized that actually there’s more to it. And it was like a sort of a realization of epiphany type mode. And it’s kind of like, well, this doesn’t bring what I thought it was going to bring.

And so, slowly, I began to realize that it was, so there’s working hard for pride, for achievement, for helping others, for doing things. And that didn’t really change too much. Everyone loves it when they get told they’ve done a good job, or they’ve helped someone and it’s like nice work. And then there’s just working for a paycheck. And I think just working for a paycheck is limited. Money is a very interesting thing on so many levels, but it’s not a great motivator, I don’t think. And I guess a lot of people seem to work around the premise that money is a motivator, and it can drive people’s behaviors and to do things. But I feel like it’s only a short-term motivator. So if somebody works and they get a pay raise, they very soon, quickly get accustomed. And then in the work that I do now with families and in wealth management, if gifts are given, that’s amazing and there’s often a lot of appreciation and much gratitude, and then after a while, it becomes a new normal. And so it sort of just dilutes or wears off a little bit over time.

And so I think money can be a motivator, and it can help in many ways, but it also is limited. And I think that’s something that I realized now more that I’m older and working with families. And the other or qualitative capitals that Jay has talked about. So he talks about financial capital, intellectual capital, social capital, spiritual, and human. I’ve really realized with time for my own journey and just working with others, that those other four qualitative capitals are just so important, and mean a lot more.

Cory: And so, Grant, what we were just talking about is that human capital component around the well-being of the individual, finding meaningful work, having positive sense of identity, and that happiness pursuit. And so, when you think of that happiness pursuit and that sports car, how are you taking that realization and that curiosity in the way that you approach the younger generation?

Grant: It’s a hard message to tell. I feel like it’s somewhat of a message you need to live. But everybody is raised, and everyone’s in different families and have different value sets to begin with. So it’s not a sort of one size fits all messaging. But I think most people deep down, they sort of know that what makes them feel good is not necessarily stuff. And I think that the younger generation today seems a lot better about giving, either their time, or maybe it’s charitable donations, or it’s volunteer hours or whatever. It’s just volunteer service. And I feel that they realize that giving actually gives them more back than necessarily they give. And so I think there is a realization already, and maybe it’s my generation.

I grew up in the UK in the ‘70s and ‘80s, and it was Margaret Thatcher, and it was very focused on what one sort of stuff is how society was. And I feel like society is a little bit better now. But it’s hard to say to someone that money is not going to be your answer. It actually can bring more complexity and issues than it will solve problems. But I feel that’s a journey you’ve got to kind of live a little bit, but I do sense that there is a wider understanding now that there’s more to it. And that wellness, that investment in themselves, the human capital, the intellectual capital with studying, and finding a passion, finding somebody that makes them feel good. I think everyone’s very aware that alignment is needed or it is beneficial. I think with my generation, it was graduate, go get a job, and make some money. And that was where it ended. And I think now there’s a lot more continuous learning and understanding, and it’s a bit easier.

Cory: And bringing that external factor in of what’s happening on the social scene and and how are we, those influences, be it political or even today in social media, but also such an influence with media. And so those influences on us as an individual. When you think of our ability to reward ourselves, we talked about the difference between things and experience. The people walking across the street had invested in experience at that moment. But then you also mentioned buying nice things and taking a moment for ourselves. How do you see that shift today? Because I’m seeing a real shift in the way that people view rewards for themselves.

Grant: I have not really thought about this too much before this question, but I guess everything is wired to give us a dopamine hit today. So the phone’s wired to give us a dopamine hit and keep us addicted. Social media, the screens, everything like that. And I wonder if the generation that has grown up with iPhones and with those dopamine hits, they are maybe more wired to go look for the dopamine hits, and an experience gives you that more so, immediate hit than necessarily a thing, which, and so I don’t know if that’s part of it.

But I do feel there is a shift more to experience, which I think is a good thing. And there’s also just the whole consumerism has changed in the world. We’re now realizing the impacts on landfill, and just consumerism isn’t that great. I think that’s taken time to get to. And it used to be just more is better. And if it was made out of plastic and it was cheap and it was imported, that was low inflation, that was great. And so there was this period.

It’s a bigger geopolitical macroeconomic picture where the countries that produced could import cheap. People had a great way of life, North America and Europe, and they would buy stuff, and it was just disposable. And so we moved from a world of fixing things to just buying new stuff. And this whole consumerism cycle kind of peaked somewhere in the mid 2000s, I feel. I don’t have data for that. But now it has shifted. And I think that the younger generation now are a little bit more experience-focused. And I feel that that’s a good thing, because it maybe creates more real connections with others if you experience that thing with something else. And it also gets rid of the falsehood of buying stuff will sort of just make you happy. So I think there is a generational shift that has taken place through time.

Cory: We went through a long period where goods inflation was actually deflationary. You think of the big screen TV, how cheap it’s become versus when we went from tube TVs to flat screens and how much they were. And I think about today, or maybe not exactly today, but the amount of money people were willing to spend on Taylor Swift tickets, and even today with the demand pricing that FIFA switched to in this tournament versus previous, and what that’s doing to services inflation, because people have shifted some of that priority.

Grant: And it’s convenience. It’s a shift. You think about Uber even, with surge pricing and the way that that works. And so there’s a whole generation that’s grown up with that. My mom now lives in Vancouver too, and she’s 75. And so she started using Uber from time to time. And it’s a different price every time she takes the same journey. And so that’s a bit alien to my mom. And I guess the younger generation, that’s just how it is, and it makes sense. And I get it. I think technology has had a big part of that too.

You mentioned the World Cup, and I’m in Vancouver right now and Canada played here yesterday. And so ticket prices have been on the topic of conversation for everybody. But you mentioned Taylor Swift, so I’ll share a quick story. So Taylor Swift came through, I don’t know, December 24, and we were putting the kids to bed. And so we have three children, and my wife and I, it’s a bit zonal defense or whatever you call it at that bedtime. And my wife had tapped out and was on her phone, and I’m like, look. What are you doing? I need some help. She said, well, I’m just on this thing about Taylor Swift tickets. And apparently, the day before the concert, the ticket prices plummet because, I’m aware of the people that are holding the tickets but need to sell them. And it’s like, who goes first to lower the price? Anyway, so I was like, they’re crazy prices. We shouldn’t be doing this now. Completely, let’s get the kids to bed and talk about it later because she was looking at buying some. We get the kids to bed, and then she’s like, well, I bought two tickets. And I’m like, what? How much did you spend on those? It was a lot cheaper than it had started out, but it was still a good chunk of money. And she was like, well, that’s right. You don’t have to come. I can take the final no. No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m just like it’s so, and I went. I was not a Taylor Swift fan. I knew a handful of lyrics from the most famous songs and absolutely loved it. I would confess I’m a Swifty now. It was incredible. And that actually changed my opinion a little bit around sort of paying for experience. And that was just a really incredible experience. And I’m so glad that my wife had the foresight to do that and drag me along. So I think there’s something to be said for that, and it is a bit of a shift.

But just when it comes to wealth and the younger generation, and, again, everybody’s different, but I think there is a sense of they didn’t add it. It’s not theirs. They’ve got to take very good care of it, and they’re a little bit more sensible with it than maybe in previous generations. Maybe it’s just me, but young kids driving fast cars, it’s like lottery winner syndrome of going out buying a Ferrari or whatever. So everyone just seems a little bit more grounded and sensible. And if they do spend, like you’ve explained, it’s on an experience. And I got to say that sometimes those are worth it.

Cory: So either Vancouver’s changed, Grant, or you’re too busy putting the kids to bed, because the rumors are that there’s a lot of fast cars with young drivers in Vancouver.

Grant: I think it has changed. I don’t see as much of that, and I don’t know if some of that is overseas students and overseas money changing. Or I’m just hanging out in the wrong spots. I’m getting it all done in the wrong place.

Cory: Going back to your wife’s insight to buy tickets, I wonder how that ties back to noticing life as you live it, and that statement that you made.

Grant: So it’s really interesting. I think about this ahead of the podcast as well. All of my big decisions in life have tended to come about by chance or luck, or whatever you call it. It’s not like I plan to meet a girl from Vancouver and then move back to Vancouver. And my wife is incredibly wise in lots of ways that I’m not. And I think you have to realize at some point that you can’t live life on your own. You don’t have all the answers. And no matter how reinforcing the world is that you’re on the right hand, you can do stuff, and you can figure it all out, you can’t, and stuff just happens.

And so, I’ve learned to be a little bit more open to change, and open to things and suggestions. And becoming a father, I use all the time, I just don’t know the answer to that because my kids ask me questions, and I’m like, I don’t know. Let’s ask Alexa, or let’s figure this out, because it’s a nice place to be to know that you don’t have all the answers, and you can try and help, and you can try and figure stuff out with other people.

So with my wife and the Taylor Swift, things like that, it’s like, okay, I don’t know the answers, and I’m open to trying. And that’s part of staying open and being curious, and just noticing life and when there are opportunities. Because a lot of the best stuff, if I look back again, living life forward and making sense of it backwards, where I went to university, that was kind of a little bit by chance. You obviously applied, but where you end up and then who you make friends with at university. It’s kind of where you sat on the first day or first few days, and that are now lifelong friends. And then I never thought that I would move halfway around the world, leave a life and a career in London and move to Vancouver and start again. And it’s been amazing.

So you can’t have that control, and I think the more that you accept and realize that and notice life when it’s showing you something and just think, okay, maybe let’s be curious. Maybe that is a path. And I’m trying to, but my wife has definitely helped me with that. It’s taken years, but she’s definitely helped me.

Cory: Well and what an exercise in from a social capital perspective of what it is that you had in London, to then presumably borrow some of your wife’s social capital as you move to Vancouver. But that requirement to really build community for yourself in a new home, and what it means to to live larger than society and contribute to it and borrow from it, how did you find that learning that so many people don’t have a chance to learn?

Grant: I’m so thankful to almost start again. So when I was in London, my work was very market-focused. And when I started in wealth management in Vancouver, I’ve got so many thoughts here to go various different directions, and the social capital was very much part of that. But it was just starting again, and it was different. So it required growth. It required a lot of inner growth and just understanding. And I’ve gone from a life where I didn’t really think about much, to moving to Vancouver, and I did take six months off, and I actually got myself a ski pass to go to Whistler. And I was driving my wife to work, and then driving up and skiing, and then driving back and picking her up from work. And I was like, how was your day there? How was you know, it’s kind of a but it got to the point, and this comes back to that work ethic question that you asked earlier. I was getting anxious on the chairlift. So I would love skiing down and have a great time, and I would sit on the chairlift. I was like, okay, I’ve not worked for four months now. I haven’t had a job. I’ll be biting my nails up. And it got to the point where the anxiety on the chairlift on the way up outweighed the fun and the joy and the skiing on the way down. And it spurred me into, like, okay, let’s figure this out.

And so I didn’t move directly into wealth management. I kind of fell into that. And the social capital element of that, so I ended up actually working with my mother-in-law at a firm that she was a co-founder of. And, again, you have to be open to stuff. I don’t think it’s many guys’ dream or plan to move halfway around the world and work with your mother-in-law. That is high risk. Anyway, it worked out.

I’m rambling a little bit, but using that social capital to start again, with my wife’s friends and wife’s networks, and then creating my own, was kind of fun. And it’s kind of a way to regrow, and it’s almost a second career in a lot of senses. So you can take your learnings from the first part, and tweak it a little bit and say, you know, I wish I’d done that. So this time, I’m going to put it in this direction.

Cory: What I find in your story, Grant, is you weren’t running away from something. That starting over, you were chasing something or someone. You weren’t running away from something or someone.

Grant: And the timing was kind of everything was fairly serendipitous if that’s the word. And it was great. We were getting married anyway. And then the timing was driven by Lisa, my wife, getting a job opportunity in Vancouver. And it just all sort of fell into place. And it goes back to that you just can’t plan stuff. You just have to try and take what’s in front of you with life, and then just enjoy it and make the most of it.

There’s a book called The Cycle of the Gift, and I really was gifted an opportunity in terms of my now job to try something. And I thought, great. I know about markets. This is easy. Actually, it couldn’t have been further from what I thought it was. It’s not about the fourth decimal place, which my old job was about when you were trading. It was about peace of mind. It’s about helping people. It’s about everything beyond the financial capital aspect of it. And that’s been a real learning thing for me over the last seven or eight years. And it’s personal growth as well, just for my own family and children and everything else.

Cory: As you mentioned the learning and fun that it was. I heard something recently about how, as a kid, if you think back to childhood, how long childhood felt. The days were long, the years were long. It just seemed like, I’m so excited to become an adult. And you become an adult, and things go faster. And that perception of time related to how much we’re learning in a day. And you think the childhood and how much you learn in a day, and how it actually lengthens that perception of time, it creates more time for you.

Grant: And I think it’s interesting because taking a twist on that, when I was younger, I used to pack as much as I could into a day, and that usually was at the expense of sleep. And now I try and do as little as possible. It is enough. I don’t need more things. That’s enough. And so it is interesting. It’s almost as if I’m trying to slow it down but can’t. And the perception difference is real. Like finishing school for the summer right now, and they can’t even remember, they can’t think back to last September. It seemed so far away for them, whereas it felt like yesterday to me.

Cory: Going back to the chairlift and that anxiety, this spring we were both at the Family Enterprise Canada Symposium in Vancouver, and you hosted a hike on the first day before things kicked off. or as things were kicking off. And I wonder, that ability to take that time to get out in nature, what’s the difference there, or what have you learned to be able to take that moment?

Grant: There’s so many different studies that talk about being in nature is good for you. It slows us down, it lowers the blood pressure, it’s fresh air, and it’s just beautiful. I don’t know many people that don’t like being out in nature. It just is a thing. And it just feels more aligned to do that as well. And I’m very fortunate in moving to Vancouver. One of the big attractions was that the local mountains are right here. Nature is right on your doorstep, and it’s incredible. It really is. And so appreciating that a little bit more. So I think it’s good for the brain, and it’s good for the body.

I recently read about how the planet has a vibrational frequency, and it’s called the Schumann Frequency, or Schumann Resonance, or something. And so when we’re out in nature, there’s less things disrupting the natural frequency of the planet and the natural. So this is kind of akin to people walking barefoot on grass, I suppose, like connecting and actually feeling that. And there’s even some parts of the world you go and you just feel totally more relaxed, like more chilled. And it’s where there’s different differences in magnetic field and frequency across the planet, and it’s scientifically proven. But being out in nature gives us the opportunity to actually connect back into that frequency. And that maybe is one angle.

I just read something on this the other day, and I find it kind of interesting, because it’s potentially a scientific explanation as to why we feel good walking out in nature, and why we feel more relaxed and more open. And it’s a great place with that hike particularly. The idea was for people to connect and talk and be able to meet others in a place where they’re more relaxed and more aligned, and just maybe, their body’s just more in tune with the planet. So it definitely helps. And I think it’s been studied in terms of longevity and lifespans and things like that. People tend to do better and live longer when they have some nature in their life. And I think it’s a good thing.

Cory: And, Grant, you’ve mentioned intuition, and I feel like that deserves a place here.

Grant: So when I was younger, I figured everything was in the brain. One of the capitals is intellectual capital, and it’s part of your overall well-being. But as I’ve gotten older, and as I look back, it feels sometimes you make decisions intuitively. And when I look back at the better decisions I’ve made through life, and we’ve all got good and bad decisions, sometimes you just know the answer, and it feels right before you’ve even really analyzed it or thought it through too much. And it just feels right. And that is a muscle that I really want to try and develop, because I feel like my better decisions come from the gut and not from the brain. Occasionally from the heart maybe, but most of the time, the good ones seem to come from the gut. And something feels intuitively right, almost before you get to that decision in your brain. And it’s something that’s not taught, we don’t learn that in school. We don’t learn that in university. And a lot of the time, we tend to think that the answer’s in the brain. And so it’s just something I’m exploring with and trying to learn more.

And so I did a breathwork session last summer. So it’s actually recommended, and talking about notes in the synchronicities in life. So I was down in Denver at Rendezvous, which is a PPI conference. And there was one of your previous guests who was there, and we were chatting. And she lives in Toronto, and she was talking to me about breathworks, where I was living, and where I was spending the summer. She just moved out of Vancouver, moved five minutes away from where I was heading back to from Denver. So I flew back, took a five-minute car ride, and did a session. And it was incredible, I don’t have the words to describe it, but it somehow created this alignment within me, and it allowed me to access that feeling in your gut and that intuition a little bit better. It almost circumvents your brain somewhat, and it goes into your body and your subconscious, and it was really powerful. And if anyone has not tried it, I would wholeheartedly advocate for breathworks. I guess there are different types, but it helps.

So intuition is something, and it’s part of that continuing learning. I think you can fill the brain up with books and knowledge and reading, and then you can learn by doing. But I think there’s also just understanding ourselves a little bit better, and understanding that gut feeling, and intuition is something I’m trying to develop now.

Cory: You talked about the dopamine in the body, and the gastrointestinal tract, there’s a lot when it comes to serotonin and that feel-good, and there’s a lot of, not only studies, so the science part, but many old parts of society who maybe aren’t using science, but we can’t necessarily explain it in in a way that western world wants it to be explained. But my goodness is the gut, the second mind for sure.

Grant: And as you look through history, there’s so many things that talk about energy in the body, and it’s not just all in the brain. It flows throughout. It’s so fascinating, and it’s a great journey to start to explore.

Cory: Absolutely! Grant, as we near the end of our conversation today, there’s a few questions I ask each guest before we wrap up. Are you ready for the tough ones?

Grant: Yes. Let’s go.

Cory: Alright. What is one key strategy you believe is most essential for building a successful family enterprise?

Grant: It’s hard to define, it’s hard to boil it down to just one single strategy. But if there was, I think it’s what I’ve witnessed. It’s intentional communication. I think with families, and it depends how they’ve evolved, and how an enterprise, how long it’s been around, and what people have grown up with. But just having any intentional communication. So it could be around wealth. It could be around the family operating company or business. But intentional communication is very odd in families because it’s not something that we start out doing. A lot of things are just ad hoc and unintentional. But I think it’s really important to actually create that space to have that communication, to have an agenda, and to have something of purpose to sit down and discuss, there’s an end goal for that communication. And I found that it’s one of the big things.

If people can communicate well, then it gets around some of the potential conflicts. It puts things on the table. It can avoid surprises. So I think that would be the one that I would go with. Having said that, it’s not always easy, and doing it is a different thing to just saying it. So that would be my one to go with.

Cory: And I think from my perspective, what we’ve spent the last half hour discussing is knowing oneself. And if you know yourself, it’s easier to communicate with others as well.

Grant: Yes. And that development within families is something that I think could be better served. I remember seeing, I think it’s Stacy Alread and a few others that came up with a 10 by 10 learning matrix. And half of it is internal growth and learning, and half of it is external growth and learning. And I feel that sometimes there’s a lot of focus on, okay, teach me the tool, teach me the three circle model, or teach me a method, because it’s easier to have an answer or solution using a tool, or using an external learning. And the hard work is the internal learning.

Cory: And, Grant, what is the most common challenge that you see family enterprises encountering when it comes to wealth transition and generational continuity?

Grant: This one came to me more easily. I think the desire for equality, the desire for everything to be equal, and I totally get it. Like, with three kids, we do you know, one cuts, one chooses enough, chooses, and then the third, the one who cuts chooses that. But there’s a keen sense from such a young age, and we as parents reinforce it about everything being equal.

And, so I’ve seen it go both ways. I’ve seen families actually talk about it, and they go for, not necessarily equal, but equality. And so it’s this whole fair and equal thing, and you get everybody on board. There’s communication around it, and things don’t necessarily get divided from an estate perspective exactly equally. But everyone is happy and everyone is on board. And then I’ve seen other ones where it is all equal, and it just doesn’t feel right for the recipients even, because there’s unequal circumstances. And sometimes maybe people figure that out themselves and beneficiaries can do that. But parents, and again, it kind of loops back to the communication, but I think parents just feel that everything must be equal. And it’s something that we it’s a it’s a loop that happens from a young age. I think parents reinforce it. And then for family enterprises, there’s that desire to make things equal somehow. For estate planning, everything tends to be equal. So that is one challenge that I don’t have an answer to. But it’s really worth a conversation around for everybody.

Cory: And I think worth noting, you mentioned a wonderful resource that I use when it comes to that. A Cycle of a Gift is a wonderful book talking about how gifts are received, versus transfers that are not considering the recipient.

Grant: And that’s an excellent book. There’s so many chapters in there. I’ve reread several chapters many times.

Cory: And, Grant, in your experience, what are the top three key qualities that successful family enterprise leaders possess?

Grant: So control is a really hard topic for leaders. I recently read a really interesting LinkedIn post around stewardship. And if there’s a founder, or there’s a wealth creator, and somebody has built wealth or built business, they’ve often used control to get there. And that’s been sort of a successful strategy for them, and they’ve grown and done stuff. And when it comes to stewardship, it requires something different from control. And this was a great LinkedIn. So I think successful family enterprise leaders understand and appreciate that ceding control is essential for something to continue because it starts to become, how can this continue beyond me, and how is this bigger than me as opposed to I’m controlling this and clinging on to it and it’s mine. So I think one thing is successful leaders are able to see that control, be it assets, be it be it a business, and they shift the responsibility into mentoring and encouraging the transfer and helping lift the next generation to upset whatever it is, the company or the wealth. So that’s one thing, ceding control.

Communication, again, we talked about it. It’s a little bit sort of, I guess, obvious or cliche. But certainly, when it comes to wealth, there’s a generational difference. People didn’t talk about money and financial capital before. So I think aside from just identifying that wealth is more than financial, but then it’s like, how do we talk about that? And so I think that communication is really crucial.

And then an awareness. It’s just an awareness with life, that there’s there’s there’s more to it. There is something bigger going on that is outside of us that we don’t have that control over or impact on, and we’re just a small part of it. And I think having that awareness can lead to a sort of more shared intention or shared purpose, which could be the stewardship of money or moving, things continuing on beyond me. But it’s just having that sort of awareness of how one person, a leader, fits into that whole bigger world and that whole bigger picture. And it’s almost taking away the ego a little bit and just sort of like, okay, this was my time, and now this is moving on.

So if you concede control, and you can communicate, and you can have a strong awareness, I would say those are three things that are gonna stand you in good stead.

Cory: And before we conclude today, I’d like to highlight where our listeners can engage in more of the conversations you’re having, as well as some resources and things that you’d like to highlight where our guests can find more about some of the topics that we discussed today.

Grant: So you mentioned Family Enterprise Canada and the symposium that we were both at. That has been pivotal for my learning, because as I came into wealth management, I did the family enterprise adviser course, and it just showed me that the family was kind of the client, not necessarily just one person. Another organization which I really highly recommend is Purposeful Planning Institute, and I think you remember as well. That has really helped me grow internally and develop myself. So those are two organizations that are worth checking out. There’s lots of resources on their websites.

And then it’s just staying open. There are so many books and so many articles that I’ve read and come across, and I know you’re an avid reader and learner. Cycle of the Gift, it’s just come up in this conversation. I wasn’t planning on mentioning that, but it’s by Jay Hughes. and I can’t remember the other ones. There’s three authors, but that is worth looking at, especially if you’re considering passing assets or wealth values, qualitative capitals down to the next generation. I think that’s a really beautiful book.

Cory: Great! And I wanted to make sure we covered everything today. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with our audience that we didn’t get a chance to touch on?

Grant: There’s so many things in my brain rattling around, but I don’t know it’s going to benefit the audience. I think I’m good where we are. I really appreciate your questions.

Cory: Wonderful! Well, thank you, Grant, for taking the time and energy to share your expertise, your experiences, and stories with us today. Your insights have been incredibly valuable, and I’m grateful for your contribution, and I know our audience will as well.

Grant: Thanks for having me.

As we wrap up this episode, we invite you to reflect on Grant’s reminder that wealth is often understood differently as life unfolds. What can begin as a measure of productivity, achievement, or financial success can eventually open into a broader question of what money is meant to support in our lives.

Whether you’re part of a family enterprise or walk alongside one, this conversation points to the value of looking beyond financial capital alone. When families make room to talk about purpose, relationships, experience, and well-being, they create a fuller understanding of wealth and the role it can play across generations.

Throughout our conversation, Grant helped bring forward the personal side of wealth. He invited us to consider how achievement, family, experience, intuition, and the ability to slow down all play a role in shaping how we define success. His perspective reminds us that wealth planning is most meaningful when it helps families stay connected to what they value, how they want to live, and what they hope to carry forward. 

If you’d like to learn more about Grant’s work, you’ll find more about Genus Capital Management in the show notes, along with ways to connect and continue exploring the ideas from today’s conversation.

Disclaimer:

This program was prepared by Cory Gagnon, who is a Senior Wealth Advisor with Beacon Family Office at CI Assante Wealth Management Ltd. This is not an official program of CI Assante Wealth Management Ltd, and the statements and opinions expressed during this podcast are not necessarily those of CI Assante Wealth Management Ltd. This show is intended for general information only and may not apply to all listeners or investors; please obtain professional financial advice or contact us at BeaconFamilyOffice@Assante.com or visit BeaconFamilyOffice.com to discuss your particular circumstances before acting on the information presented.